Bar rest in voice 2
Hi, I was wondering if it is possible to input a bar rest in the 2nd voice (or 3rd, 4th) and notes in the 1st voice at the same time? I've put an example from Sibelius in the attachment.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| 2nd voice bar rest.GIF | 27.65 KB |
Comments
Sure. I would enter the voice 1 first, then in the second voice a whole rest. Double click on it and move it with the arrow keys (Ctrl + arrow keys for smaller steps)
In reply to Sure. I would enter the voice by [DELETED] 5
It has crossed my mind, but in this case the time sig. is 6/8 and I am unable to input a whole rest. musescore will only allow a dotted half note rest, which is unsatisfactory. Any idea how to override it?
In reply to Sure. I would enter the voice by slaven
What about putting the notes in voice 2 and the rest in voice 1 ?
In reply to What about putting the notes by [DELETED] 5
That is clever, indeed! Thank you, problem solved. :)
In reply to What about putting the notes by slaven
Not always a great option, though, if you're trying to be consistent in use of voices - eg, voice one for soprano, voice for alto. I've often felt it would be useful to have an explicit "whole rest" that could be entered like any other rest. On the other hand, since playback is obviously not an issue, entering such a rest from the symbol palette works, too - it's just more fiddly when it comes to positioning.
It's fairly easy. First clear the bar in voice 1 to get a whole bar rest in the centre of the bar. Then swap voices 1 & 2 (Edit > Voices > Exchange Voice 1-2). You can do this for individual bars, groups of bars or whole scores.
Alternatively, you can enter voice 1 details. Swap voices 1 & 2 to give voice 1 content in voice 2 and a whole bar rest in voice 1. Now swap the voices again and you will find that the whole bar rest created for voice 1 is retained in voice 2. Now you can edit voice 2 to suit.
This technique will work for other voices as well, but you don't always see two rests. For example, if you have an empty bar (highlight the bar press DEL or backspace on Mac) and go Edit > Voices > Exchange Voice 1-4, you will just get a single whole bar rest above the stave. However, swapping again will leave you with two whole bar rests, one for each voice.
In reply to It's fairly easy. First… by mgough
You realize that you responded to a 7 years old thread?
And that since this is far easier, see https://musescore.org/en/handbook/measure-rests#measure-rest-other-voic…
In reply to You realize that you… by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes, I did realise it was an old thread, but your answer was not there. Perhaps there is a case for closing or hiding old threads. I found the thread because I wanted to do the same thing and did my usual google of "musescore" followed by what I wanted to do. Your "official" solution is obviously the right way to do it, but mine might be quicker if you have lots of separated bars in the score that you want to treat. You can do them all in one fell swoop.
In reply to You realize that you… by Jojo-Schmitz
PS. I have a Mac, and there is no DEL key. Perhaps the handbook should give the Mac command Shift/cmd/backspace.
In reply to PS. I have a Mac, and there… by mgough
I'm pretty sure Shift/Cmd/Backspace is mention in the handbook, but if you find places where it is missing, go and add it
In reply to I'm pretty sure Shift/Cmd… by Jojo-Schmitz
No, it's not there as far as I can see. Certainly not where your link leads. I would add the information, but, sadly, I don't know how, especially adding the lovely little key images.
In reply to No, it's not there as far as… by mgough
In other places it claims Mac to use Cmd+Del (Cmd+Del), so here it should probably be "(Mac: Cmd+Shift+Del)", so I added that to the handbook
In reply to In other places it claims… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks for editing the handbook, but I repeat - THERE IS NO DEL KEY ON A MAC KEYBOARD. In apps like MS Word you can use fn + backspace in place of Del, but that doesn't seem to work in MuseScore.
I have delved into editing and gone over the page in question, substituting Backspace for Del and putting in the symbol for Cmd, which I found elsewhere in the handbook and copied.
In reply to Thanks for editing the… by mgough
I've reverted this for now, if really all Macs are having Backspace instead of Del, we'd need to change the entire handbook, not just one page. That symbol is a bad idea too, it should not be in the handbook, as certain browers/OSs don't render it, same for the fn key symbol
In reply to I've reverted this for now,… by Jojo-Schmitz
Then you'd better look at this page:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/copy-and-paste
and probably others that already have the symbol for Cmd.
If there is a problem universally rendering the Cmd symbol, does the same apply to the key () symbol that is used throughout the handbook?
I have to say that I don't see the point in perpetuating the use of Del for Macs, when such a key does not exist. I would happily undertake to edit the handbook myself (I am retired and have the time), but short of a reliable method of easily finding all occurrences of Del, I think I'll pass.
If you are shying away from altering the whole handbook (which you and I know is really the right thing to do), can I humbly suggest putting a note somewhere obvious (probably in the Mac OS install instructions) telling Mac users to use Backspace if there is no Del key?
In reply to Then you'd better look at… by mgough
These 2 Mac specific symbols should not get used, but Cmd and fn instead.
Just replacing Del with Backspace won't help, I think it should be fn+Backspace, but then again you just said that this is not working?
In reply to These 2 Mac specific symbols… by Jojo-Schmitz
No. fn + Backspace definitely does not work in MuseScore, at least not in the Mac OS environment. It might if you run Windows on a Mac using Parallels (or similar) and are in the Windows OS environment, but I'm not about to check that. There's absolutely no point in installing MuseScore for Windows when I have a perfectly good copy in Mac OS.
Now here's an interesting thing!! Suppose you want a whole bar (measure - I'm guessing you're American as you previously spelled realise as realize) rest in voice 2, you can put any length rest you like (it doesn't have to correspond to a whole bar count). Providing you select the first rest in the bar (I say first, it may be the one you have just entered, but it's usually the same object), pressing Shift + Cmd + Backspace will still give you a whole bar rest properly centred. You may want to check this in Windows.
By the way - I don't think the MuseScore forum is the appropriate place for this type of conversation, but I'm guessing that publishing email addresses is frowned upon.
In reply to No. fn + Backspace… by mgough
I'm German BTW ;-), but indeed frequently use US spelling, that is also the default language in MuseScore
In reply to I'm German BTW ;-), but… by Jojo-Schmitz
Interesting thing about the spelling. When I wrote the last message, it accepted realise, but underlined realize as not recognised. It may have something to do with what language you have your computer set to. Certainly I have seen the use of measure and staff rather than bar and stave. I also use the terms breve, semibreve, minim, crotchet etc.
In reply to No. fn + Backspace… by mgough
The forum is definitely the place to be discussing this since several people can have input. There are more platforms to consider than just Mac and Windows so others might be interested and have input into the discussion. Jojo is a German whose English is better than most Americans I know, I guess he defaults to using American English.
As for the ctrl+shift+delete/backspace is concerned, the developers (werner and lasconic et al) are aware of the differences in keyboards between Windows and Mac. They defined Full measure rest using both of these methods realizing that the delete key is more instinctive for a Windows user and backspace is the only option for a Mac user. On my windows system both work and are visible in the Edit->Preferences->Shortcuts tab, I'm not sure about this tab on the Mac.
In reply to The forum is definitely the… by mike320
Hi Mike. Thanks for the clarification about the use of the forum.
I have been using MuseScore for a long time. I used to have a Windows PC and seem to think that back in the day Mac OS was not supported. Since changing to a Mac, I have used the Mac OS version quite happily, but it's only through use and experimentation that you get to do everything you might need. The handbook is pretty good, but I find that the search function is not very good with phrases as opposed to single words. I generally use Google search to home in on what I want, but this often takes me to the forum and I don't always find the answer.
This Del/Backspace thing is not trivial. The two functions are quite different. Both are supported on a Windows keyboard, but the Del key does not feature on my small Apple Magic keyboard (Jobs has a lot to answer for). More than that, I have a Mac mini and initially used a Windows keyboard with it. The Del key did not work at all. It is not the case that you can simply use Backspace in place of Del. Sometimes you can (deleting a whole measure is a case in point) but not always.
I strongly feel (contrary to Jojo) that the handbook should properly describe the command structure for ALL platforms and to show the Del key for Macs is, frankly, dodging the issue.
The shortcut menu is not in the same place on the Mac. Preferences are not listed under Edit, but under MuseScore (it's usual on Macs to have Preferences listed under the app name). I see there that Backspace is shown with the symbol X in a left-pointing box. This is not what appears on my backspace key - it's simply a left-pointing arrow. But I can see there are versions of the keyboard that have the symbol that is used in the shortcut menu. Mind you, arrow symbols are used to show the up/down/left/right keys. Interestingly the shortcut menu also shows arrow symbols at 45 degrees. These keys are not there either on my Mac Keyboard.
Under Delete, the shortcut menu lists Cmd + X-in a-right-pointing-box and Cmd + X-in a-left-pointing-box (Backspace). X-in-a-right-pointing-box is not there on my (compact version) keyboard, but is on the extended version! Not very helpful - to me at least. The same symbol also appears under full bar rest.
In reply to Hi Mike. Thanks for the… by mgough
As far as the location of the shortcuts is concerned. I now remember something about the name of the menu being different on the Mac. This is all part of the cross-platform process to make each user feel like he is using a program made for his platform. In the forums there is an expectation that people will translate certain items to their operating system (ctrl v. cmd) or dialect (quaver v. 1/8 note) for some specific examples. I often (and just did) refer to the manual to understand what a British user is referring to ( I never can remember what a minim is) and attempt to respond in the same language.
As far as the manual is concerned, Mac users have been contributing to the buttons included in it since the beginning of the manual. From what you say, there are many differences from one Mac keyboard to another. Which Mac keyboard do we reference in the manual? Perhaps this is worth a discussion the the documentation forum. Perhaps there will be a large response to it, but my experience says it will be much smaller than we would hope for.
In reply to Thanks for editing the… by mgough
Complicating this: it simply isn't true that "THERE IS NO DEL KEY ON A MAC KEYBOARD". There are different models of Mac, and with them, different keyboard layouts. While as far as I know all of these these incldue only a single key dedicated to deleting things, and the key functions as a backspace key and not a delete key are far as how those are traditionally defined, the key is labelled differently on different models, and on some of them at least, the label is "Delete" or "Del". On others it is labeled with an icon but no text. I haven't seen one where it is literally labeled "Backspace" but wouldn't doubt these layouts exist as well.
In reply to Complicating this: it simply… by Marc Sabatella
Let's put this to bed once and for all - or maybe I'm blind! I have a British Apple Magic (wireless) keyboard and I am attaching a photo. There is no Del key that I can see. True it may appear on other versions (eg the US version) and the extended keyboard. not to mention the Belkin YourType numeric keypad add-on. In preferences and elsewhere, you can see that fn + backspace is equivalent to delete. While this works on other apps like MS Word, it does not in MuseScore. I therefore effectively have no delete key that I can use in MuseScore. Now there are other command combinations I can use and I'm happy to do so, but there must be others who flounder around because they can't find these combinations or are not computer-savvy enough to try things out. That's why I would rather there was some documentation within either MuseScore itself or the handbook to show people what to do
In reply to Let's put this to bed once… by mgough
If you do not have the ability to make a delete command how do you edit items such as staff text? Do you only use backspace to delete wrong letters? If fn+backspace is a standard method of creating a delete command on the Mac, then IMHO it should be included in MuseScore. The only issue with this would be if MuseScore uses fn+backspace for a different purpose which would render this impossible. I'm curious if you have tried to define the "shortcut" in the shortcuts tab and what shortcut is defined for delete on your system.
In reply to If you do not have the… by mike320
I've always put the cursor to the right of text I want to delete and then used the backspace key. However, experimentation shows that the fn+backspace combination DOES work when editing text within MuseScore (and in this forum for that matter), but not when manipulating notes, rests or anything musical. I can't find the fn key listed in any MuseScore shortcuts, so there should be no conflicts.
There seems to be no way of adding to shortcuts within Mac system preferences, only editing existing ones.
And don't tell me to buy an extended keyboard! Apple stuff is overpriced as it is.
In reply to I've always put the cursor… by mgough
I got the small window by selecting the Delete line and pressing the Define... button. The large window shows that my Delete function is defined by using the Del key (which is called Delete in one place and Del in another on my keyboard). I can change or add a definition to this by clicking in the New shortcut: area then typing the new shortcut. I will then be given a choice to Add the definition or Replace the current definition. You must enter then shortcut then click the appropriate button. All buttons (including Enter/Return and Tab) are included in the shortcut.
The text editing is independent of the shortcuts in most cases. This Delete function is the one that will clear a measure.
In reply to [inline:define shortcut.png] by mike320
I've tried that to no avail. If I re-define by holding down the fn key and pressing backspace, I get the same X-in-a-right-pointing-box that's already there. It doesn't work!!!!!!!
In reply to I've tried that to no avail… by mgough
Very well. I just wanted to assure you were going through the correct process. It seems this needs to be addressed. It should work for everyone. I am not a programmer so I am not the one to do this. There are Mac programmers out there who would be more likely to be able to address this. Perhaps one of the programmers will tell you what you need to do to turn this into a bug report so it can be fixed. BTW, I would (almost) never tell someone to buy new hardware (unless their hardware is not designed to do what they want). Yours should work.
In reply to You realize that you… by Jojo-Schmitz
Hello, I'm kind of new to all this, but I could not use either way since the time signature is 5/8 and there is no single rest that could extend for the full measure.
Could anyone help?
Thanks a lot,
In reply to Hello, I'm kind of new to… by Gabriel Lucena
If you want to make a measure rest select the first rest of the measure and press ctrl+shift+delete. This works in all voices.