Horizontal flag flip

• May 3, 2016 - 18:13

I know this is unorthodox (yet some really crazy looking things are allowed in MuseScore with the alignment properties), but is it possible to have a left-faced flag of a beamed note? If not, is it possible for it to be an added property of the flag of a stem: its horizontal-orientation? I'm imagining some possible scenarios where it would look decent - I realize its not normal, but I still think it's a valid question.

To Illustrate:
reverseflag.png

Comments

• May 3, 2016 - 19:15

If there exists a standard musically valid reason for this notation, then indeed we should support it more directly. But assuming it's just some random experiment you want to try, then MuseScore supports it the same way as other random experiments - you can place a symbol from the Symbols palette or a graphic as a PNG or SVG file. Backwards flags are currently implemented as part of the SMuFL standard, so I'm guessing they are indeed never encountered normally, and in case that means they aren't part of the standard fonts we use, so you'd need to import that as a graphic.

Reply

• May 3, 2016 - 20:31

Thanks for the tip: the thought of using symbols as an alternative means didn't cross my mind. Unfortunately the only symbol I found close was within the Bravura font, and it is a miniature form of what was desired. Just for fun I am attaching an image of using the mentioned Brevura symbol followed by an edited image of a flag reversed in a possible scenario. You're right though, it's just a personal aesthetic in certain situations and definitely not for standard use.
experiment.png

Reply

• May 3, 2016 - 23:33

P.S. again this is unorthodox, but the option seems viable when a beamed set of notes is at the end of a measure with a tie into the following measure. Personally I think the option to reverse the flag to face toward the beamed notes prior to it could clarity in certain circumstances its being of the prior set of notes and not the first actual note of a measure, although this is just an opinion. For instance:
option.png

P.P.S. Based on the logic of Marc's sentence and my lack of seeing standard reversed flags while perusing SMuFL fonts, it's safe to say that is what was meant.

Reply

• May 4, 2016 - 01:37

Inventing a notation no one has ever seen before is pretty much never a way to increae clarity. People would just be confused as to what this bizarre-lookig symbol was meant to convey. Again, you are welcome to import graphics to create whatever experimentation notation you want, but if it was truly a viable way to increase clarity, published music would actually do this.

Reply

• May 4, 2016 - 02:45

Marc, Is there a way to import graphics in MuseScore into something that can be used over and over again like a graphic-import into palette-symbol for such usage? From my current understanding there only seems to be drag-and-drop, but I may be missing something. I think that would be a nice feature so someone who wanted to be less constrained would have a viable solution to being individualistic toward their productions, or if they had a consistent reason to apply a particular graphic throughout their work they would have an apt method in reusing their own graphics.

P.S. For some reason with the last reason I mentioned I hadn't thought of the fact that one can have the beam extend past the measured bar-line, thus eliminating the desire to have a custom flag to signify its being part of a pattern from a previous measure rather than just using the tie for prolonged duration. At least it's an option.

Reply

• May 4, 2016 - 17:39

Awesome! Thanks for the tip.
To anyone else sans outside reference: once a graphic is used in a score (drag-and-dropped) - and you first need an editable palette with a custom workspace - you just have to hold CTRL+SHIFT and then drag that image into a sub-category into your palette. It also saves any resize information, so resize the graphic first if desired and then drag it in.

Reply

• Jan 8, 2024 - 00:19

Unfortunately, palettes in Mu4 won't provide the result of a search string correlated with a custom palette item, or any item with a changed name property, or respect an attempted user-based re-ordering of item positionings to have control of the order of search results, and it also evinces a strong lag when activating search, nor does the tab become focused when previously not activated when issuing a search command, yet all that is integral to how I've acclimated to using a custom MS3 branch.

So, to achieve what I already have available at hand, what starts out as a trivial bug fix would become more and more involved, and then I "lose heart" about it :-/ instead of being unselfish and begin one thing at a time. Woe is me!

Reply

• Jan 8, 2024 - 02:11

To achieve a desired result (such as originally mentioned) not in accord with the basic functionality of MuseScore, the means to do so is often by way of importing SMuFL or other graphics (aside: preferably vector based), as was mentioned by Marc long ago. That would seem on point regarding the topic, yet the mentioned method is no longer available to a Mu4 user by way of palette storage. Things such as custom tempo texts, etc. also come to mind (for example, this how-to entry: https://musescore.org/en/node/266325 states -

under the heading: "Using the marking":
"Also consider then adding your SVG into a custom palette if you plan on using the marking multiple times."

This statement is not in accord with Mu4's inability to perform the palette addition and is therefore obsolete.

Reply

• Jan 8, 2024 - 02:14

Mirrored quavers specifically, no, hardly any sort of priority. But graphics in palettes as a way of accomplish this an a thousand other things that aren’t urgent in themselves - that’s something that should certainly work. And I’m guessing it’s a trivial oversight in some function, the proverbial one line change, to fix. Just requires someone with the necessary skills and motivation to tackle it.

Reply

• Dec 19, 2024 - 23:33

While not standard, I enjoy typesetting manuscripts as accurately as possible, and some composers have odd habits, such as backwards flags. The Interesting thing is that a backwards down stem flag is just a rotated up stem flag, and vice versa. I would've thought this would be relatively easy to implement with that in mind.

Reply

• Dec 22, 2024 - 16:25

Actually, that score is a piano reduction of a J.S.Bach (1685-1750) chorale which was originally composed in 1723 and scored for choir and orchestral accompaniment.
The Myra Hess (1890-1965) transcription is her arrangement for solo piano. It was first published by Oxford University Press in 1926 -- not quite 100 years ago. (It is not public domain in the EU.)
What some may view as "idiosyncrasies" is actually Hess's way of capturing the composer's intent (e.g., another melodic-rhythmic contour) -- which should be understandable to competent, modern musicians.

Reply

Do you still have an unanswered question? Please log in first to post your question.