When importing XML files, the vocal tenor part plays back an octave too low
Hi everyone
I write vocal arrangements in Sibelius and export them to Musescore via XML so that my choir can use the Musescore version to learn their parts. But I've found that the tenor part, although it looks correct, plays back an octave too low. I noticed that the Concert Pitch button is on by default, and if I turn it off, the tenor part drops down an octave which I guess explains the playback pitch.
I could go through all my scores, turn off concert pitch and lift the tenor parts an octave, but I'm hoping someone knows a way to import the scores without concert pitch turning on, and with the tenor parts in the same octave they were in Sibelius...
Thanks :)
Kate
Comments
There are different ways that tenor voice parts are written - some poeple put them in bass clef, others in treble clef but with transposition set to sound an octave lower, others use an "octave clef" (with the little 8 below) to indicate the same thing. MuseScore should be honoring however it is specified in the MusicXML file. If you feel it is not, could you attach such a MusicXML here?
In reply to There are different ways… by Marc Sabatella
Hi Marc
I write tenor parts in the tenor clef - the octave clef you're referring to - when I write the parts into Sibelius. When I've finished, I export the sib file to XML, then import it to Musescore. It's never occurred to me before that anything would go wrong in that process, but it seems that the tenor part - although it looks exactly as it did - plays back an octave below where it should. In other words, two octaves below what the pitch would be if it was in the ordinary treble clef without the little 8, just to be 100% clear. If I click on Concert Pitch in Musescore, it drops the notes down the octave on the stave, and they play an octave below what is written. So somehow Musescore is dropping an extra octave down for the tenor playback.
I've attached a sample score so you can see what I mean.
Thanks so much for your help!
Kate
In reply to Hi Marc… by choralmanianz
Looks indeed like the score is showing both the octave clef and the octave transposition when normally it should be one or the other. Hence the playback is off by an octave. The question is, did this happen because Sibelius exported to MusicXML incorrectly, or because MuseScore imported the MusicXML incorrectly? We'd need to see the MusicXML file to say.
BTW, when exporting from Sibelius, use the Dolet plugin if available rather than the built-in MusicXML export - it usually does a better job.
In reply to Looks indeed like the score… by Marc Sabatella
XML file attached, exported direct from Sibelius. In the interests of full disclosure, the only options it gives me is compressed or uncompressed, and I always allow it to default to compressed.
I'm not aware of the Dolet plugin...where can I get that from please?
In reply to XML file attached, exported… by choralmanianz
See http://bfy.tw/HShw
SCNR...
In reply to Hi Marc… by choralmanianz
Well, I definitely see both the octave clef instruction ("clef-octave-change -1") as well as the transpose instruction ("octave-change -1") in there. I'm still not clear on whether this is correct or not. I know the octave clefs in Sibelius are for show only - they don't in themselves transpose. Whereas in MuseScore, Finale, and most other programs I know of, they do. So in Sibelius I believe it is necessary to set both the clef and the transposition to get the desired effect, and it makes sense that it would try to export it that way. But MuseScore, Finale, and other programs don't work that way - with the octave clef, you don' also transpose. I can't tell from my read of the MusicXML spec if programs are supposed to export both the octave transposition and the regular transposition (ie, if MuseScore and Finale are supposed to add transposition instructions) or if they are not (e, if Sibelius was supposed to remove the transposition instruction).
I know that MusicXML is "owned" by Finale, and tends to reflect their usage. I do see a comment from Michael Good (main person in charge of the format): https://forums.makemusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1988. I think this suggests that MuseScore is right, and Sibelius is wrong here. But Hopefully Leon or someone more familiar with the spec can investigate further.
In reply to Well, I definitely see both… by Marc Sabatella
Hi Marc
I'm not knowledgeable enough about how things work to know about those instructions in the code... But I'm confused about your comment that the octave clefs in Sibelius are just for show. If I play back the score I wrote in Sibelius - the one from which I exported the XML I sent - then the tenor clef plays down the octave, exactly as I want my tenors to sing it. I don't have to do anything else, and if I click on "Transposing Score" under the Home tab (I'm using 7.5), it doesn't change how the tenor clef plays back, nor how the notation appears in the way that, say, a Horn in F does.
I read Michael Good's comments and they made my head hurt :)
Kate
In reply to Hi Marc… by choralmanianz
The reason it sounds correct in Sibelius is because the transposition is also set to an octave. Try changing the clef to regular treble in Sibelius and you should see no change - the notes continue to display on the same lines and spaces, and the pitch remains the same too. Ditto if you try adding an octave clef to a part that currently uses the regular treble clef. This is unlike MuseScore, where changing to an ocrave clef immediately alters the lines/spaces of the notes, just as when changing between treble and bass.
In reply to The reason it sounds correct… by Marc Sabatella
Oh that's fascinating! So it does! Where is the transposition setting? Not that it's going to help me with this issue, of course :)
In reply to Oh that's fascinating! So… by choralmanianz
I am not sure. In MuseScore, it is in Staff Properties, which you access by right-clicking the staff. It's normally configured automatically when you add a transposing instrument. I imagine it's similar in Sibelius but the specifics might be different.
In reply to Well, I definitely see both… by Marc Sabatella
Unfortunately I am not sure either. The MusicXML spec typically does not state what something means, but only what it is used for. As a result, the MuseScore MusicXML import/export is partly based on guessing what typical usage seems to imply.