[sv_SE] Swedish translation errors

• Aug 4, 2021 - 02:19

There are some grammatical issues and some formatting issues. There are the following I can find.

GRAMMAR AND SPELLING
Appearance: Light, Dark
Translated as "Ljus, Mörk", should be corrected to "Ljust, Mörkt"
Select: Dot 1, Dot 2, Dot 3, when selecting an empty beat
Translates as "kt 1, Punkt 2, Punkt 3", a mistake on the first one which should be "Punkt 1"
Save changes: Save, Discard, Cancel
Not translated, should be "Spara, Spara inte, Avbryt", to follow Windows default
Menu bar: File, Edit, View, Add, Format, Tools, Plugins, Help
Translated as: "Dokument, Redigera, Visa, Lägg till, Format, Verktyg, Insticksprogram, Hjälp" which does not follow the Windows standard. It should be translated as:
"Arkiv, Redigera, Visa, Lägg till, Format, Verktyg, Insticksprogram, Hjälp"
Bold marks the letter used for the shortcut.
Palette Properties: Show grid
Translated as "Visa gitter", should preferably be "Visa rutnät"
Bitrate: kBit/s (which is also incorrect)
Translated as "kBit/s", should be "kbit/s"
The English translation can be either the correct "kbit/s" or the short "kbps"

FORMATTING, source: CLDR
All numbers are incorrectly displaying units together with the number, which is not proper according to the ISO 80000-1 standard which Sweden follows well. So here are most I can find:
px: "28px" should be "28 px".
pt: "9,00punkter" should rather just be "9" since text size usually don't have neither a unit nor decimal places. If a unit is used, the standard abbreviation in Swedish is still "pt" according to CLDR.
min: "2min" should be "2 min"
%: "100%" should be "100 %"
ms: "300ms" should be "300 ms"
DPI: "360DPI" should be "360 d/tum"
sp: "0,00sp" should just like the rest have a space; but for the unit, is "sp" for space? scale-dependent pixels? One idea is to use "steg" and format it as "0,00 st", but I don't see it being necessary to include a unit.
li: "1,00rd" should be "1,00 rd", or leaving out the unit works too
mm: "0,00mm" should be "0,00 mm"

SCREENSHOT
Included in the screenshots are some elements shown. The menu bar incorrectly using terms like "Dokument" instead of the standard "Arkiv". Below the menu is the zoom with the incorrect "100%" missing a space. The save warning dialogue using English words. The inspector on the right hand side showing numbers with the unit "sp" missing a space, and at the bottom showing the mistake with "kt 1".
MuseScoreScreenshot.png

Comments

• Aug 4, 2021 - 08:14

Best just join the Svedish translators team on Transifex (it has 29 members currently) and fix those yourself.
Maybe also join the translator's channel on MuseScore Discord server.

But thanks for the report!

  • "Light", "Dark": fixed
  • "Dot 1": fixed (a very obvious typo)
  • That "Save", "Discard", "Cancel" comes directly from the Qt libraries, it is not part of the MuseScore translations. You'd need to get the Qt folks to include those in their translations. It might have been done already, in newer Qt version, unfortunately for the 3.x series we're still at Qt 5.9. Maybe check whether this is better in the development builds for master, which uses Qt 5.15.2. As fas as I can see "Discard" gets translated as "Förkasta" in other places (or Qt), not "Spara inte" (but "Save" as "Spara", "Cancel" as "Avbryt").
  • "Dokument, Redigera, Visa, Lägg till, Format, Verktyg, Insticksprogram, Hjälp": fixed, thanks for those!
  • "Visa gitter": fixed
  • What is wrong about "kBit/s" ?
  • The missing space between number and unit is a Qt thing. We should not add leading or traling spaces to translations. That issue had been discussed at length before. It is not just Sweden, it affects basically every language, as that I in ISO 80000-1 stands for International ;-). We'd really need a fix for this in Qt.
  • "punkter": fixed (to "pt")
  • Not sure we should translate "DPI", Dots Per Inch? Actually true for any unit, esp. those that a SI ones (which DPI is not), except maybe for adjusting them to the laguages' character set (Cyrilic, Arabic, etc.)
  • "sp" stand for "space" or "spatium" (a term from typography), the width of a space, the distance on 2 lines in a normal 5-line staff. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatium
  • "li" stands for "lines". would "rd" reflect that? Wouldn't that rather be "linjer" in Swedish and as such "li"?

You'd get the fixed translations if you update them via the resource manager, in some 15 miniutes

Reply

• Aug 4, 2021 - 15:14

> Best just join the Svedish translators team on Transifex

Certainly. I shall report future errors there.

> As fas as I can see "Discard" gets translated as "Förkasta" in other places, not "!Spara inte"

"Discard" on Google Calendar is translated as "Släng", the first one I can think of. However, the unsaved changes dialogue should not really say "Discard" in the first place. The standard is "Save, Don't Save, Cancel", and it would be best if Qt follows this standard for consistency.
unnamed.png

> What is wrong about "kBit/s" ?

"Bit" is nonstandard. The old symbol was "b", but since it was often confused with "B" for byte, the new symbol is "bit", and still lowercase. Using "Bit" could confuse some users into thinking "B" is a short form for "Bit" when it's not. The IEC 80000-13:2008 standard says "bit" and is what Windows is using and CLDR for some languages, and the IEEE 1541-2002 standard says "b" and is what CLDR is using by default. Neither says "Bit" though.

And if the question is regarding English. The common way to write it in English is "kbps", using the "b" symbol, along with "p" instead of "/" like other Imperial units. (British English should consider using "/" like metric)
Windows-Properties.png

> The missing space between number and unit is a Qt thing. We should not add leading or traling spaces to translations. [...] We'd really need a fix for this in Qt.

Okay, then that's on Qt. So you have been in contact with Qt and the development has been slow? Where would you go to report translation errors for Qt?

> Not sure we should translate "DPI"

It's in CLDR. set to "dpi" in English and "d/tum" in Swedish.
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/unicode-org/cldr/master/common/main/s…

Adobe Photoshop for example is using "pixlar/tum", Adobe Illustrator is using "ppi", but Microsoft Explorer is using "dpi" and Microsoft Paint is using "DPI". So it's already inconsistent. So if everyone moves over to what CLDR is using, it will eventually be consistent. "d/tum" follows the common standard Swedish is using such as the aforementioned "kbit/s" over the English "kbps".

> "sp" stand for "space" or "spatium" (an expression from the priting press business), the width of a space, the distance on 2 lines in a normal 5-line staff.

I can't find any information about the printing press business. The best I can do is some Wikipedia browsing. The English page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_(music)# is using the terms "lines" and "spaces", and the Swedish page https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notrad is using the terms "linje" and "mellanrum". But there is no abbreviation for "mellanrum" as far as I can tell, and a lot of abbreviations are taken already: "m" meter, "ml" milliliter, "mln" million. I still don't think a unit is necessary; other units are already missing, like tuning and velocity.

> "li" stands for "lines". would "rd" reflect that? Wouldn't that rather be "linjer" in Swedish and as such "li"?

"rd" would be "rader", and this would be what Microsoft Word is using as a translation for "line", such as "Line Spacing" → "radavstånd".
47b37852-c965-402f-b405-990727a28260.png

Reply

• Aug 4, 2021 - 19:25

My reply is gone, must be because you edited this comment and the system messed something up. So I'm going to sum it up instead.

> As fas as I can see "Discard" gets translated as "Förkasta" in other places (or Qt)

Google uses "Släng", but regardless, the standard "do you want to save before exit" dialogue in Windows uses Save, Don't save, Cancel, and MuseScore should use the same for consistency. That might be on Qt to fix. I don't see why they go with discard.

> What is wrong about "kBit/s" ?

That's non-standard. The symbol for bit is either "bit" or "b", so "kbit/s", "kb/s" or the English "kbps" would be in use. Using "Bit" could make users think "B" is a bit too.

> The missing space between number and unit is a Qt thing. [...] We'd really need a fix for this in Qt.

Is there a way to get in contact with Qt to report this issue?

> Not sure we should translate "DPI", Dots Per Inch? Actually true for any unit, esp. those that a SI ones (which DPI is not), except maybe for adjusting them to the laguages' character set (Cyrilic, Arabic, etc.)

Units that are non-SI will be inconsistent between languages. DPI in Swedish changes a lot between software, from pixlar/tum, ppi, dpi and more. But since CLDR uses "d/tum" for the Swedish translation, that seems to be the most valid translation in Swedish and also follows the standard formatting with "/".

> See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatium

Yes, I was looking for this. So "spatie", in that case "sp" would work.

> "li" stands for "lines". would "rd" reflect that?

Yes, "rd" for "rader". Microsoft Word uses "rad" as a translation for "line" for example.

Reply

• Aug 5, 2021 - 16:30

I've explaind why it is "Discard" elswehere. If you want "Don't Save", switch to a Mac ;-). We can't change it.

I don't buy the argument about kBit/s. And if this needs changed, then in the original string (too)

Yes, there are ways to open bug reports for Qt. They have their own bug tracker, see https://wiki.qt.io/Reporting_Bugs

DPI is used in the Swedish translation on all places where the original text is DPI too. So I'd rather keep it as the unit too. IMHO it is universally understood

The Swedish translations do use "rd", so that's sorted

Reply

• Aug 4, 2021 - 09:36

BTW: there is no sv_SE translation, just an sv one. Is there a need to differentiate by country? Like sv_FI, Swedish as spoken in Finnland? Would it be significantly different, esp. with the strings used in MuseScore?

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• Aug 4, 2021 - 15:17

It was just that MuseScore itself said sv_SE at startup. sv_FI is a valid other variant, but since the differences would be minor; it would really only be valid to include if sv can be set as a parent, and only providing the strings that are different for sv_FI, but I don't think Transifex supports that, unlike say CLDR.

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• Aug 4, 2021 - 15:20

Transifex does support sv, sv_SE and sv_FI. But currently MuseScore has only sv. And reading your reply, I see no reason to change that.
But indeed the translation system does not support a stacked approach, like having sv for everything and sv_SE/sv_FI for some exceptions. I'd really like that though, usefull in many cases, like the Arab translations, ar, ar_DZ, ar_EG, ar_SD (and more)
Actually to most of the incomplete ones, falling back to en(_US) , like the current and only method, is wrong quite often. Many African languages for example might better fall back to French, pr_BR to plain pt. af might fall back to nl, some Slavic languages to Russian maybe, Sicilian to Italian, Valencian and Catalan to Spanish etc.

I don't hinnk thoug that this is Tansifex' restriction.

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• Aug 4, 2021 - 19:28

Well, I tried again, and it just says it's awaiting approval.

So really short: Windows uses "Don't save" not "Discard", it should preferably be consistent. "bit" in lowercase is standard, never with uppercase B (could be confused with byte). "DPI" is inconsistent in Swedish, but CLDR says "d/tum" which follows standard pattern. "sp" is fine for sparie then. "rd" would be "rad" like in Microsoft Word for line.

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• Aug 4, 2021 - 19:53

Save, Don't save, Cancel is used in:
Microsoft Notepad, Wordpad, Paint, Paint 3D, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Visual Studio, Visual Code, Unity

Yes, No, Cancel is used in:
Windows Media Player, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Notepad++, Audacity, GameMaker

Save, Discard, Cancel is used in:
MuseScore

Help, Discard changes, Cancel is used in:
Gimp

The standard in Windows is still Save, Don't save, Cancel, and then there's Yes, No, Cancel lingering from the pre-Vista days. It also appears as if Apple uses the same terms as Windows. If the Save, Discard, Cancel is from Qt, it appears as if they are trying to be more creative, and I don't get why.

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