Da Capo and voltas
Hi all,
another question about the way MS plays voltas, this time when it has to jump Da Capo.
MS plays as follows:
First pass -> B1-E1-B1-E2-B2 (as expected)
Da Capo -> B1-E2-B2 ( ??? )
I'd like to ask three question:
1) Would a musician play the score the same way?
2) If not, how would the musician play it?
3) How can I make MS play the whole score as B1-E1-B1-E2-B2 - B1-E1-B1-E2-B2 using voltas and Da Capo?
Thank you for help.
DaCapoTest.mscz
Comments
Upgrade: https://musescore.org/en/download
See: https://musescore.org/en/node/293377
In reply to Upgrade: https://musescore… by Shoichi
Thank you for the hint, it works, even though not in all conditions.
![DalSegno.jpg]( "DalSegno.jpg")
In this case, for example, it doesn't:
The presence of a preceding Right Repeat Barline prevents MS from playing the score as expected.
Removing that barline obviously changes the first part of the score but lets MS play the repeats and DS correctly.
Can this be considered a bug or there's some other parameter to set?
DalSegnoTest.mscz
In reply to Thank you for the hint, it… by nisantmail
You score was saved in verison 3.1. I suggest you upgrade to 3.2.3 and reenter the jumps and repeats and then post the question again if it's still relevant.
In reply to You score was saved in… by mike320
I've just installed the last version, rewritten the score from scratch and played it back.
Same result.
Without the first right repeat barline it plays as expected, with the barline MS drops some bars the same way as the previous version.
Do you notice the same?
DalSegnoTestNew.mscz
In reply to I've just installed the last… by nisantmail
It is the Play Repeats of the D.S that doesn't seem to work
In reply to I've just installed the last… by nisantmail
This is a known issue in DS and DC. I've explained the workaround before.
see: https://musescore.org/en/node/284214
Put a section-break to the same measure as the DS.
Right-click on Section-Break. and select "Section-Break properties"
Then, remove all ticks and set the pause time to 0.
Be sure to include section-break to DC and DS in such complex situations.
In reply to This is a known issue in DS… by Ziya Mete Demircan
It works perfectly, thank you so much !!!
Just for my knowledge, is the section-break symbol part of the musical standard notation?
In reply to It works perfectly, thank… by nisantmail
No. It won't even print.
As an old musical tradition, repeats aren't played after Da-Capo and Segno returns (and continue to last Volta, if present.)
Since there is a lot of request before, "Play Repeats" option is added to the Inspector for Segno and Da-Capo (from version 2.x). // it's un-ticked by default, for historical/traditional reasons.
In reply to As an old musical tradition,… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Thank you for clarification.
What surprises me is that the musicians that invented tools like Voltas, Da Capo, Dal Segno and so on to make the score more readable, compact and easily memorizable, decided to give them only partial applicability (don't repeat voltas after DS, for example).
Anyway, today's music, expecially songs, with their specific structure, extremely different from classical music and reach of choruses and refrains, takes great advantage of a complete application of those tools.
So I think that using them completely or even improve them (I'm thinking about possible nested repeat sections symbols, for example) could make the musical notation even more effective.
In reply to Thank you for clarification… by nisantmail
Todays, many DAWs and sequencers (also midi editors) have a score-editor.
You can also use one that is suitable for you with Musescore. So you can create it in Musescore and transfer it to other software (DAW, sequencer) and do whatever you want there.
In reply to Todays, many DAWs and… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Of course I could.
The fact that I'm thinking of improvements doesn't imply any criticism against the fantastic developers that created this great free software and make it better day by day.
I can just express my admiration and gratitude to them.
In reply to Thank you for clarification… by nisantmail
For your other question (for nested repeats):
see: https://musescore.org/en/node/252926#comment-786121
In reply to For your other question (for… by Ziya Mete Demircan
What I understood of musical notation (also helped by MS practice) is that conscutive right repeat barlines all refer to the last left repeat barline preceding them.
So, the notation prevents any possibility of nested repeats (in the process iteration meaning of the term "nested").
That's the reason why I was thinking of a new symbol in musical notation symbol set to make this possible.
I guess musical notation wasn't born in one day, so improvements have been made and accepted ... when needed and useful, of course ... :-)
In reply to What I understood of musical… by nisantmail
People (who don't know better) write nested repeats all the time, and of all the notation mistakes I see in the music for the ensembles I conduct, this is the single biggest source of confusion in rehearsal trying to sort of which repeat goes where.
In reply to People (who don't know… by Marc Sabatella
Based on what you noticed, It seems to be a requested feature.
So, if this causes frequent troubles, maybe it's not so insane thinking of new specialized symbols for nesting groups of bars, instead of misusing other symbols that have different goals.
In reply to Based on what you noticed,… by nisantmail
As a purely intellectual exercise? Sure, that could be interesting. But I would say not a chance in the world of actually getting it accepted and understood in the real world.
In reply to Thank you for clarification… by nisantmail
As explained above, if you prefer a non-traditional interpretation, you can have it - you just need to check a box. Musicians invented these terms and and the behavior in order to explain what music commonly does. It's not just int he ancient past that forms like AABA were common - they remain so today. That's why even today the standard defaults interpretation remains to not take the repeats on the DS/DC. if you want a human musician to take the repeat, they need to be told explicitly via the text "(take repeats)"; if you want MuseScore to take it, you need to the check the box. It would be doing people a disservice if MuseScore tried to reinvent music notation and play repeats on DS/DC automatically when human musicians don't.
In reply to As explained above, if you… by Marc Sabatella
If I've correctly understood what you wrote, there is a standard form (explicitly write "take repeats" on the score) to tell the human musician to play the bars the same way even after a DS/DC jump.
So, it seems to me that the check box "Play repeats" just filled the gap between old MS versions playback behaviour and the standard notation accepted by musicians.
Anyway, if "take repeats" wasn't specified, I'd like to know which ending the human musician would play.
1. or 2. ?
Thank you for clarification.
In reply to If I've correctly understood… by nisantmail
2, if they know the rules. But, since it is such a common point of confusion, more likely they'd ask you which you meant (if you happened to be around), or use some human ingenuity to attempt to figure out your intent from the context.
In reply to 2, if they know the rules. … by Marc Sabatella
From now on, I won't need to ask it anymore.
:-)
Select the D.C. and select "play repeats" in the inspector